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sdcoffeeroaster  
#11 Posted : Monday, December 1, 2014 9:40:44 AM(UTC)
sdcoffeeroaster

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My kitchenaid dishwasher, KUDS30ixbl1 is about3 1/2 yrs old now. It's had the complete touch panel and control boards replaced in the first week of operation. That lasted until about 2 months ago when two wires that were only partially twisted together during the installed opened from arcing and the unit quit. Last month the display panel started to act up again leaving two blue leds lit all the time. They ordered a new display assembly and the day before they arrived to install it the thermal fuse opened during an incomplete wash cycle. Now they don't want to install the display assy or order the fuse and want to do a "buy out". I'm assuming that's either pro-rated money or a voucher. I don't think they ever replaced the fuse or the wiring and I think it's been apart many times. I bought the extended warranty because this looked like a lemon from the first week and now they are going to stick me with this. Does it sound like the if they replace the control panel and switch I might be OK. They don't know a thing about trouble shooting and they're just part replacers unfortunately. I know I could probably fix this myself if they at least replaced the touch panel now. Any advice? Thanks
bolonny  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 5:18:07 PM(UTC)
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when replacing 98c(thermal cut off is at 98 degrees celsius) thermal fuse use electrical grease on all connections to eliminate resistance(HEAT) and you should be good to go.................if you can solder i recommend going to radio shack and getting a thermal fuse for 1.99 ,follow recommended soldering instructions as to not over heat the fuse when soldering,,,,when buying fuse look at the ..TF O98C..the o98c is the degrees it can also be something like 115c,,129c ect. it will also say 120v and all that info is on the plastic or ceramic clip that its housed in.....also if ya dont use heat element it will never blow cause thats the main purpose of the fuse,,,,,hair dryers have them(but they reset when cooled down),toasters,tons of stuff uses them ,heck even your computer uses them
R1100RA  
#13 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2020 2:28:18 PM(UTC)
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OK there is too much BS in this thread especially from the people who supposedly are "experts". Btw the downloadable PDF is pretty much useless it does not provide any meaningful information how to troubleshoo the cause of the blown TCO which is the main issue here!

So let's start with some facts:

1. A TCO senses temperature and will "open" (and stop electricity through the circuit) when the ambient temperature will reach (and exceed) the temperature it's rated for. E.g. a 85C TCO will click "open" when the air temperature around it is at 85 or above Celcius which is about 185F.

2. Contrary to what some "experts" are saying a TCO is a ...dumb device. All it can so is sense temperature and it does so in a rather crude (bi-metal) way, but it works reliably and it is cheap to make so they put them in our appliances to protect the electronic PCB board that essentially runs the appliance and also to prevent a fire.

3. Unless the TCO has been inserted into very loose spade connectors (in which case obvious arcing will be the telltale) it is usually very reliable and will not be tripped by the wiring or anything else, again it only senses temperature.

4. A TCO btw does have an amperage rating but that is to protect the TCO and ensure its proper operation. E.g. if your TCO is rated for say 10 Amps if somehow the circuit carries more than that eventually the TCO will fail to function properly when needed. More current though means that something ELSE is malfunctioning within your applicance, NOT the TCO.

5. Finally, NEVER run the appliance with a jumper between the TCO cables. The appliance will run but it is not protected by whatever caused the overheating issue in the first place.

Having said that, ignore those who say the "upgraded" wiring will solve the problem. It will NOT! The problem is excessive ambient temperature around the TCO which depending on the location of the TCO will eventually degrade and eventually destroy the component the TCO was there to protect in the first place.

Also, if you decide to keep buying TCOs at least buy a resettable one so that you can at least avoid the hassle and the expense but you MUST find the reason why the temperature is getting higher than before in the area the TCO is located.

If you have any questions please email me directly at R1100RA(at)gMail(dot)com, as I am not monitoring this thread.

Cheers!
R1100RA  
#14 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2020 2:34:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gene Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bustoutfunk Go to Quoted Post
Hi megaman. What was the result of your problem. I am debating whether to replace the wiring that comes with the kit or just put in a new fuse...I am getting mixed response...

Also, the document posted states the following:

The temperature control circuit should be analyzed for proper operation and corrected.

How would one go about doing this?

Thanks.


What is the complete model of your dishwasher?

Did it happen first time?

Gene.



Hey Gene, why does it matter if it happened for the first or the millionth time? If the TCO tripped that means something is causing the ambient temperature around the TCO to rise above an unsafe level. But I guess you as an ..."expert" you knew that, right?

Edited by user Monday, August 24, 2020 2:42:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

R1100RA  
#15 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2020 2:38:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gene Go to Quoted Post
It is very important to replace this fuse together with the wires included in the kit.

Hopefully the new fuse will last.

Gene.


The TCO wiring is irrelevant Gene! What you should be telling this guy is to find WHY the ambient temperature around the TCO is getting higher than what the manufacturer's specifications are. Plus, "hopefully" is not what an expert technician should use when suggesting a repair solution. You either know what causes that or NOT. But again you are only an "expert", right?
alkisax  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, September 15, 2020 3:30:19 PM(UTC)
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Kitchen aid dishwasher thermal fuse keeps blowing
I have read numerous threads about the thermal fuse blowing and tried all the suggestions to no avail, what was key to the thermal, fuse blowing is every time There was water in the bottom, I heard several people had the same problem but never got a answer that solved my particular problem. It ended up being the switch for the water level in the bottom ( made so much sense ) the float switch is covered by a plastic cover so if your not looking for it probably won’t see it. When I removed it I saw slightly burnt looking soot on the spade connector! Been through six cycles now, still working, before it blew about every second or third time.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 15, 2020 3:32:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: added the brand

maccannix  
#17 Posted : Friday, December 4, 2020 8:10:33 PM(UTC)
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I too have suddenly had the TCO start failing on my 12 year old Kenmore Elite. One thing that I noticed was my circuit board was brown and the connector melted at the connector to the thermal switch/heating element. I replaced the connector and a length of wire with a brand new one, checked the ohms of the heating element (13.8 - within the 10-50 spec). Ohmed the entire heater circuit from board connector to door switch - 13.8. Replaced TCO. Tripped again. I agree with R1100RA about the TCO and have researched these devices at length. Yes, it looks like a current fuse on the wiring diagram, but it is not.

So, I learned an interesting thing. If you run it with the heating circuit unplugged, you will get the flashing green lights. If you run it and open and close the door at 14-15 minutes, it will complete the cycle. Of course it won't heat the water, but my inlet water is 120 degF. so, I can stay in business while trouble shooting and get parts. Apparently, the control will, in the first wash cycle, check the thermistor to see if the temperature is rising in a timed interval. If the temp does not rise, then the control interprets this as a heating problem. Opening the door disrupts this sensing phase.

When I get this finally going, I will check back in. Hope this nugget that I have not seen anywhere helps.
Ed Explains It  
#18 Posted : Friday, April 16, 2021 12:13:27 PM(UTC)
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3/12/21


KitchenAid Dishwasher KUDS30IXBL Thermal Fuse



Objective
To convey solutions and information related to the thermal fuse problems that seems to be chronic to KitchenAid (Whirlpool) dishwashers and other manufacturers.

KitchenAid Dishwasher repair blogs and forums have many pages of incidents. I post this report in the hopes that it will be picked up and disseminated and help many KitchenAid dishwasher owners and well as other makes.


History
I purchased a KitchenAid (Whirlpool) Dishwasher Model KUDS30IXBL in September 2011.
After 4 months it died, nothing worked. The repairman replaced the thermostatic fuse. About 4 months later it died again, same problem, repairman replaced the fuse. Another 4 months and it failed for the third time. Repairman said the spade terminals on the fuse were loose and a new wiring harness was needed, but he replaced the fuse.

At this point, being a mechanical engineer, I decided to take matters into my own hands, so I crimped the fuse spade terminals which were so loose they almost slid off by themselves. The dishwasher worked fine until the Fall of 2020 when indicating lights started to work erratically requiring resetting of the circuit breaker. After a few weeks of this it died completely.

I replaced the 4 connectors (on a single plug) at the lower left of the control module with proper spade connectors. The connectors were an unusual design and not standard spade connectors. This worked perfectly for a few weeks, then it died again.

The thermal fuse circuit was open and had to be replaced, but I did a modification to the design as you will see below.


The Problem
I have read lots of threads here and people are replacing the control module, fuses, thermostats, and wiring harnesses. Some comments also allude to house power as the problem or to “baby” the dishwasher as a solution.

Here is what I have determined:
The control module IS NOT the problem.
The thermostat IS NOT the problem.
The wiring harness IS NOT the problem.
The house wiring IS NOT the problem.

The thermostatic fuse IS the problem. (not the fuse itself, but the system design)


The Fix
The fix is simple, safe, and easy to do. The fix is 100% reliable.
No need to “baby” the dishwasher by running without heated dry or sticking to normal cycles.
(see “Solution - How to Fix” section)


Background
Why is there a thermal fuse anyhow? The purpose of the fuse is to protect against the thermostat sticking closed and causing an overheated dishwasher resulting in melted components or even a fire.

The thermostat is located on the bottom of the metal pan on the outside at the front. The thermostat opens and closes to turn the heating coil on and off.

If one were to jumper out the thermostatic fuse the dishwasher would work fine, but it would not be safe. DO NOT install a jumper.


How the Fuse Works
Inside the fuse is a small thin round bi-metallic plate, a little smaller than a dime. Each side of the plate is a different material, each with a different thermal expansion rate. The plate is concave on one side, convex on the other. When the fuse reaches the trip temperature the plate convex-concave reverses, operating a small pin and breaking the electrical circuit.


Fuse Tripping
The fuse gets heat from two sources, from the ambient air around the fuse and from heat generated by electric current passing through the fuse. The intention is for ambient air to do the tripping and not the current flow (amps).

The problem is that the primary source of heat is from the current flow and not the ambient temperature.


Electrical Design Issue
Estimated current draw:
Heater: 7 amp
Motor: 2 amp (in-rush current could be 50% to 100% more)
Solenoid Valve: 0.5 amp
Control Module: 0.2 amp

All electricity for the dishwasher flows through the fuse. The current flow varies as different items start and stop in the programmed sequences.

Ideally, the current flow through the fuse would be small and steady.


What Happens
Electrical contact internal to the fuse and other connections degrade over time due to oxidation, resulting in more resistance in the circuit. Normally, in most electrical circuits, this would not be a problem, but in this dishwasher there is minimal reserve margin.

This contact degradation, resulting in more electrical resistance, causes more heat generation within the thermal fuse. This explains why the fuse failed every few months (like clockwork for me).


Solution - How to Fix
The solution is to reduce current flow (amps) through the fuse. There are two ways to accomplish this. I used method 2 on my unit.

Method 1:
Install a relay in the circuit so that the only current going through the fuse is the small amount needed energize the relay coil (less than 1/100 amp) vs the 8-10 amps with all current going through the fuse.

Wire the NO (normally open in shelf condition) relay contacts in place of the fuse. Wire the fuse and the relay coil in series between the hot (black) and neutral (white) 120 volt power wires.

Note that the relay will always be energized holding the NO contacts closed.

Use a standard SPDT ice cube style relay with spade connectors, 15 amp contact rating and 120 volt coil. Use 14 gage stranded wire similar to the existing wiring.

Mount the relay inside the door to the left of the control module.

Method 2:
Wire a second thermal fuse in parallel with the existing fuse. The current draw will then be 50% through each fuse. The 8-10 amp now will be 4-5 amps per fuse.

Use two sections of 14 gage stranded wire similar to the existing wiring and splice one each into the two black leads beneath the control module. These are the leads going into the control module directly to the fuse. Install spade connectors onto the free ends of the two new wire sections.

Install the new thermal fuse onto one of the two spade connector.

Pass the fuse through a 4” long piece of 1” PVC tube and install the second spade connector to the fuse. Slide the fuse into the middle of the PVC tube.

Mount the PVC tube just to the left of the control panel, above the fiberglass insulation, and cable tie the tube through the existing unused slot just behind the door handle.


Replacement Thermal Fuse Part
There is no need to buy a manufacturer’s OEM part costing as much as $30. I purchased NTE Electronics Disc Thermostats from Galco.

http://www.galco.com/buy...TE-DTO190?type=ac_search

Cost is $2.78 each so I bought 6. These are identical in physical size to the existing, but are 190 oF opening and 160 oF to reset. The existing ones are one-shot meaning once they open they are no good. The NTE/Galco part is rated 15 amps.

The reset feature is a big advantage. If the fuse trips, then the dishwasher goes dark for some minutes until the fuse cools to 160 F, then the dishwasher flashes blue light until the start button is pressed. This is your indication that something is wrong and needs attention.


Result
With either Method 1 or Method 2, the fuse most likely will never fail again because the current (amps) through the fuse is significantly reduced. Dishes will be cleaner than ever due to more amps being deliver to the heater.


Summary
My KitchenAid Model KUDS30IXBL, in my opinion, has “good bones”. The motor, pump, and heater all seem to be of great quality. The unit runs very quietly and there has never been a leak.

However, there are two weak spots in the design. First is the thermal fuse discussed above. Second is the upper rack wheels which fall off after the plastic wheel axles age and break. I have redesigned and repaired both of these issues on my unit.

Now I feel that my dishwasher is robust and could work for another 10 years. It is already over 9 years old. The shame is that the customers have to redesign and fix their own machines when this should be done at the factory Engineering Department.

Since resolving the thermal fuse issue, the dishes come out sparkling clean even on normal cycle. The reason is very simple – hot water. Thermal fuse degradation results in excess resistance limiting the flow of current (power) to the heater, resulting in water not getting hot enough. The golden rule is “Hot Water = Clean Dishes”.
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