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Model: 665.13592K600 Brand: Kenmore Age: 1 - 5 years
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Joe / APP Team  
#11 Posted : Monday, February 28, 2011 11:04:25 AM(UTC)
Joe / APP Team

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Originally Posted by: bbc3 Go to Quoted Post
Hello all,

Hope all is well with everyone. Seems my problems are not so easily resolved. The thermal fuse has blown 3 times now since I resolved the problem at the time of the last post here. So the issue seems to be, what is causing the thermal fuse to blow?

(1) I dont think there are any dwelling/house electrical issues contributing. I am getting about 118volts A/C at the outlet. One note is that it is an outlet on the same house breaker with other outlets in line. I believe the vacuum cleaner may even be run from time to time in this circuit. Was not thinking that was related though, as this is a "thermal" fuse.

(2) I have been using the "sani-rinse" which I believe heats the water pretty good in an extended rinse cylce. I am going to try to stop using that cycle and see if it helps. But really, shouldn't I be able to use it? So is it a programming problem on the main board chip??

Possible solutions: I was thinking maybe slightly insulate the thermal fuse to give some buffer. Or even get a fuse with a higher temp. This one is 90 Celcius, which I believe converts to 210 degrees F, or right below boiling. So perhaps get the next one up? Seems like while it would allow for too much heat potentially, it would still shut it down prior to total meltdown?!?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Joe?

Thanks in advance.


BBc,

I'm wanderring, myself.

You're sure you got all the wires connected and the connections are tight, correct ?

And you did use the harness that came with the fuse, correct ?

I"m sure you' ve checked for proper polarity at the junction box, on the frame,

You're pretty close to target on your temperatures,
Sani Rinse will heat the water to 155 dgrs.
High limit thermostat is rated at 180 dgrs.
The thermal fuse is rated at 195 dgrs.
(give a 10% "fudge factor" either way, and you'd still be in factory specs).

You should probably check the resistance on your heater element.

10 to 30 ohms resitsnce at room temperature, element cold.
in the dry cycle, with the element dry and on, you should read approximately 25 ohms after th element is on for a while.

The 118 VAC, is in a proper range, as long as the motor is running or the heater is on.

With the heater on and the motor running(sani rinse cycle) at 118 VAC, you should be drawing 5.5 to 6.5 amps. You should also check the voltage at the same time.

I can only think of a couple of possibilities,

Possibly, a sticky thermostat, weak thermistor or a low voltage problem, causing a higher than proper amperage draw.

For safety sake, don't insulate the thermal fuse, or run the unit without it, other than to test the unit, There is a great possibility of a fire hazard.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
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bbc3  
#12 Posted : Monday, February 28, 2011 2:29:20 PM(UTC)
bbc3

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Posts: 20
When you say polarity at the box, you are talking black to black, and white to white where the cord to the wall is capped in, right. The little metal box under the front right that houses the wires connecting to the power supply I am assuming???

Funny though I am not sure there is not a dwelling issue here. It seems like once I was changing a hanging light and I had the switch off, the black was def cold, but then I got lit up by the common line (white), but mildly it seemed. So now I am really wondering where to even start... as I wonder if there is a whole house issue somewhere. It is an early sixties home.... I am not so sure that one of the runs has not been reversed somewhere in the attic or underneath. I DO KNOW that all the lines in the breaker box are correct as I did replace that and have it certified... But this does not rule out a swap somewhere at a modified juction someone may have done at some time... Dont know just thinking aloud. It may even require something being plugged in or energized somewhere to create the conditions. It was just too much of a mystery so I did not pursue it. I really dont think its the issue.

Can I even rule out. I can remember if I can even see poles in terms of A/C, white/black, etc....

Originally Posted by: Joe / APP Team Go to Quoted Post
BBc,

I'm wanderring, myself.

You're sure you got all the wires connected and the connections are tight, correct ?

And you did use the harness that came with the fuse, correct ?

I"m sure you' ve checked for proper polarity at the junction box, on the frame,

You're pretty close to target on your temperatures,
Sani Rinse will heat the water to 155 dgrs.
High limit thermostat is rated at 180 dgrs.
The thermal fuse is rated at 195 dgrs.
(give a 10% "fudge factor" either way, and you'd still be in factory specs).

You should probably check the resistance on your heater element.

10 to 30 ohms resitsnce at room temperature, element cold.
in the dry cycle, with the element dry and on, you should read approximately 25 ohms after th element is on for a while.

The 118 VAC, is in a proper range, as long as the motor is running or the heater is on.

With the heater on and the motor running(sani rinse cycle) at 118 VAC, you should be drawing 5.5 to 6.5 amps. You should also check the voltage at the same time.

I can only think of a couple of possibilities,

Possibly, a sticky thermostat, weak thermistor or a low voltage problem, causing a higher than proper amperage draw.

For safety sake, don't insulate the thermal fuse, or run the unit without it, other than to test the unit, There is a great possibility of a fire hazard.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
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Joe / APP Team  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, March 1, 2011 6:00:06 AM(UTC)
Joe / APP Team

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Originally Posted by: bbc3 Go to Quoted Post
When you say polarity at the box, you are talking black to black, and white to white where the cord to the wall is capped in, right. The little metal box under the front right that houses the wires connecting to the power supply I am assuming???

Funny though I am not sure there is not a dwelling issue here. It seems like once I was changing a hanging light and I had the switch off, the black was def cold, but then I got lit up by the common line (white), but mildly it seemed. So now I am really wondering where to even start... as I wonder if there is a whole house issue somewhere. It is an early sixties home.... I am not so sure that one of the runs has not been reversed somewhere in the attic or underneath. I DO KNOW that all the lines in the breaker box are correct as I did replace that and have it certified... But this does not rule out a swap somewhere at a modified juction someone may have done at some time... Dont know just thinking aloud. It may even require something being plugged in or energized somewhere to create the conditions. It was just too much of a mystery so I did not pursue it. I really dont think its the issue.

Can I even rule out. I can remember if I can even see poles in terms of A/C, white/black, etc....



BBC,

We're getting off track,

But,

If that light you were working on, is a "dual" switch system, A light switch on each side of the room, that can happen, that system controls the neutral leg of the light circuit, not the hot leg, otherwise you do have a problem.

Now for the dishwasher,

If I remember, you're using a power cord and the unit is plugged into an outlet, with the rest of the kitchen outlets?
These should be 120 Volt, polarized and grounded outlets.
(you could purchase a polarity test meter to check, or use your multi meter.
(the center/ bottom round opening is ground, the left side slot should be L1(hot leg) and left slot N (no voltage).
(but, it's been working fine until now ???)

Check and make sure the hot leg on the power cord, is attached to the Black wire in the junction box on the dishwasher, and make sure the connections are really tight and the white and green wires, are proper and tight as well.

You can also insert your meter probes into the slots on the other "socket" and test the voltage , while the dishwasher is running, we can varify if there is too deep a voltage drop(no more than a 10% drop in VAC under a load).

Your idea, running the unit with the heater circuit eliminated, will give us a better idea as to possible problems as well.

:cool: :cool: :cool:
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bbc3  
#14 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2011 4:25:18 AM(UTC)
bbc3

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Joined: 2/20/2010(UTC)
Posts: 20
You know, I was posting about a fridge today and just thought I woudl provide some feedback on this thread for the sake of answering the issue and for data's sake. I never got the part to stop blowing. I think it was a heat delay fuse. So I had to wire around it. I just dont run the unit when I am not present. But it has to be a failure in the firmware/hardware on the main board I am guessing. But there was not fix I found and I am not about to crank out a hundo on a three hundred dollar dishwasher..

So thanks for all the help. It gets the job done for now..:)
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Joe / APP Team  
#15 Posted : Friday, August 26, 2011 6:08:37 AM(UTC)
Joe / APP Team

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Originally Posted by: bbc3 Go to Quoted Post
You know, I was posting about a fridge today and just thought I woudl provide some feedback on this thread for the sake of answering the issue and for data's sake. I never got the part to stop blowing. I think it was a heat delay fuse. So I had to wire around it. I just dont run the unit when I am not present. But it has to be a failure in the firmware/hardware on the main board I am guessing. But there was not fix I found and I am not about to crank out a hundo on a three hundred dollar dishwasher..

So thanks for all the help. It gets the job done for now..:)


BBC,

Sorry we couldn't get you up and running"properly". We understand the frustration.

Good Luck,
:) :) :)
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